I"m getting sick and tired of watching Barry Zito starts where he gives up 4 runs in the top of the first inning and you know the game is over right there....wait, what? Oh, hi guys! Did I just do a good enough impression of a MCC post? Seriously, maybe the Giants need to shuffle their rotation so Timmy isn't going up against the other teams' ace every time, because it's getting to the point where you feel like they don't have a chance in those games. Roy Halladay looked beatable tonight, but I don't care if your team is the Bronx Bombers, you do not fall behind Roy Halladay 4-0 in the top of the first inning and expect to win. Just ain't gonna happen. Key lines:
Angel Pagan- 2 for 5. BA= .200. Pagan is starting to get a few games with multiple times on base.
Buster Posey- 3 for 4. BA= .321. 3 ground ball singles. I would like to see Buster get the ball up in the air a bit more often.
Brandon Crawford- 1 for 4, 2B, E(4). BA= .237. Despite the errors, Crawford has a strongly positive UZR so far this season. So strong, he has already put up 0.4 WAR, which pro-rated over a full season gets you to 8 WAR! Not that I think he's going to end up with 8 WAR, but he IS only hitting .237.
Tim LIncecum- 6 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 1 BB, 6 K's. ERA= 10.54. In Timmy's defense, he might have gotten a bit BABIP'd in this one. He actually settled down and pitched a pretty good game after the first inning, but again, with Roy Halladay on the mound, 4-0 might as well be 20-0. You aren't gonna win the game!
Madison Bumgarner signed a long term contract with the Giants which guarantees him a minimum of $35 M through 2017 and gives the Giants conrol of his contract through 2019 by which time he will be still only 30 years old. If he achieves certain incentives, such as winning the Cy Young Award and if the Giants pick up his options for 2018 and 2019, he can make as much as $70 M out of the deal. While there is some risk to the Giants in this contract, it pales in comparison to the risk they took on with Matt Cain. The probability is that this will end up as a great contract for the team even while it guarantees Madison Bumgarner a lifetime of financial security. Win-win!
I hope this finally, finally puts to rest the internet meme's about Giants ownership and Rainy Day Funds and closing "Windows of Opportunity" and Brian Sabean and Larry Baer and all the other uninformed poppycock that's been thrown around for way too long. Brian Sabean said the team's priority was locking up the core of young pitching and the Giants have done just that. There is a strong pipeline of talent coming along in the minors that will both add to this core and allow the Giants to continue to afford it.
Madison Bumgarner takes on Joe Blanton and the Phillies tomorrow evening at AT&T Park.
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DocB, had to laugh you got called out big time over at MCC on the MadBum, "throw yourself down the stairs" draft comment. I don't think they are going to let you live that one down, ever.
ReplyDeleteBetween the Sharks going down 4-1 to the Blues and the Giants 4-1 to the Phillies, this was bad night for the home teams. Indeed, Halladay was beatable today, but not after spotting him 4 runs. Ugly for Timmy.
Ha! I still laugh at that on myself. Like many, I really wanted the Giants to draft a hitter that year and there were things I didn't like about MadBum's scouting videos: 1. The sweeping arm action looked like he showed the ball early. 2. The big crossover step looked like an injury waiting to happen. 3. The low arm slot made it difficult to get depth on the breaking ball. Sabes and Tidrow were looking at fastball command. Turns out they knew what they were doing.
DeleteThe funniest part of the stairs comment was I think a lot of them over at MCC thought I might have really thrown myself down the stairs because it was right about the time MCC went to SBNation and I couldn't log back in. I finally decided it was getting too crowded over their and quit trying. LOL!
I stood up for you, said I think he's over that one by now. Someone threw up the link for the piece you wrote. You actually made the throw down stairs joke for several players. That gets brushed under. Glad you can laugh about it. I saw the reference on MCC a lot and didn't realize it was you who had said it until a couple months ago.
DeleteEh, it's OK, they can point at Bumgarner, you can point at Grant and all the rest of them who wanted, nay, demanded, Smoak be selected over Posey and cried about that for days after the selection.
DeleteIn your defense, you wanted Heyward instead, between Heyward and Bumgarner, while MadBum is clearly better right now, Heyward ain't no slouch as an MLB player.
Smoak, however, pales in comparision with what Posey has done and been in the majors so far.
I think they made the bigger mistake, by far, you at least were comparing two stars, whereas they wanted the craggy, distant ice planet (Smoak) instead of the real star, Posey.
OGC - I've nosed around some of those draft threads and I think you might be selling Grant short on the Smoak/Posey. He preferred Smoak but was quite happy with Posey in the things I read. There is actually a lot of info in there that is quite interesting to me, as I get deeper down the draft rabbit hole.
Delete@Monterey Shark, the Sharks lost 4-3, but either way bad night for Sharks and Giants.
ReplyDeleteforget the giants...they are what they are
ReplyDeletekids playing? let em lose...only way to learn
i think melky's hurt...put him on the dl and bring up...LINDEN
here is what is on my mind...whats the over/under on valentine....i say june 1
dumbest hire in the past 20 years
Halladay wasn't that good...Lincecum actually pitched better, but got unlucky on some LDs and very unlucky on some fly balls (Pagan stopped on a fly ball in the first inning; later Huff's slowness caused Craw to have to chase and miss a popup on Otero's watch that the LF really needed to have gotten). SS is not really the problem at the moment. Still not sold on 2B.
ReplyDeleteWorried about Lincecum's speed, but it's all in his hands.
While I agree with you on the broad terms of interwebs poppycock with ownership/windows of opportunity/Sabean I do think this ownership group can be quite dysfunctional. Kudos for locking up in logical order - Cain, MadBum, Sando, now we'll see about Posey (injury) and Timmy (contract demands, velocity hoo-hah) in a bit. They made very nice gestures yesterday about committing to their core.
ReplyDeleteIs it obvious at this point Bobby Evans is groomed for the job when Sabean wants to roll? I think there are some pretty big hints. Evans seems to be personable in a way Sabean isn't, not sure of his baseball IQ but I do like the sense of long term continuity. As long as they are committed to developing their own players and drafting wisely.
With yet another Freddy Sanchez set back, I can see the trades being a 2B and a advanced bullpen arm. The Giants have tons of depth in RH Relief, but they might want something a bit polished. Daniel Murphy and Gordon Beckham are my early favorites on the 2B trade front. Still not sold on Handy Manny over in this corner.
Shankbone,
DeleteCan you cite some examples of how this ownership group being dysfunctional has harmed the Giants in any way?
Ooo! Ooo! I can answer that one!
DeleteHis go to example is usually the Vlad vs. cast of mediocre thousands decision, tied to both RDF (I called it the Maddux Money, in honor the free agent we threw the money at) and the mini-minded investors who did not want to pony up more money into the Giants, they want their dividend checks (go invest in utility stocks if they do not want to put in more money into their investement).
Correct me if I'm wrong though, Shankbone.
Yes that is where I'm going. Thanks for a very exact summary OGC! Am I becoming too predictable?
DeleteLosing Clark and Kent, and not going after Vlad. I don't sweat the small stuff DrB. I think you are glossing over this Cain decision as inevitable, a part of the master plan. From what I hear, there was a lot of pushing and pulling to get it done. And you know who gets the credit? The guy who takes the most heat: Larry Baer. Good job Larry.
Big time players, stars, leave giant sized holes in franchises when they leave. Clark walking was based on a number of factors, as was Kent. Barry Bonds looms large in both, but the amount of money the ownership group wanted to crib counts for something as well.
Most Giants fans are big supporters of Tidrow, Barr and Bobby Evans. Sabean rubs them the wrong way. Not me, he grates at times, but I'm all for giving him another shot, American comeback style. I've just come around to a lot of what OGC has said about the ownership group being at the heart of the matter - especially with Vlad. And Zito.
So my examples are: Letting Clark walk (ancient history); letting Kent walk (a mixed bag, no doubt - but Peter the Pink wasn't a fan); not signing Vlad; cheaping out with a silly punt draft strategy; gutting the scouting budget from the beginning!; Zito, but that's a dead horse; jettisoning BowTie in part because of the completely reasonable decision to jettison Rowand and Tejada (which should have been done 2 months earlier). And the fact this Cain decision just might, just might, have been much closer a call then what you're saying.
You do realize they are on their 3rd lead dog in the past 5 years right? That in itself is a big sign of dysfunction.
Now winning a world series has mellowed us all. And reading some of the stuff you put up at MCC/Minor league ball back in 08 DrB, I'd say its mellowed you a lot. The Giants have been killing it with the draft, advanced scouting for their dumpster dives, and great stars in the pitching department. But all is not grand behind the scenes, and it can turn, as fast as a little belt tightening at the wrong end of the operations budget.
I openly admit I have changed my mind about Brian Sabean and the Giants since it became clear that they were committed to building from within. I think somewhere around the time they drafted Posey, I realized that Sabean was not just committed to the draft, but really reveling in it. That's all I need to see from a GM. A committment to scouting and the draft and then backing it up by drafting the right players. Everything else is small stuff.
DeleteAs for ownership, Clark, Kent and Vlad, I've always believed in Branch Rickey's maxim, "it's better to trade them a year too soon than a year too late." Can't get too upset about Clark and Kent. I was in favor of acquiring Vlad, but in fairness, he had some back issues that could have reasonably scared off a prudent owner from going over budget for that long. Besides, all 3 of those situations pre-date the start of the current era which started with the drafting of Timmy Lincecum.
Any time you have a group of people sharing power, there is going to be some dysfunction, but if Baer has the baseball moxie to understand the importance of signing Matt Cain and has the people skills to bring the other owners on board, then that's actually a big improvement over BowTie, who apparently wanted to make the decisions without input from the other owners, which is dysfunctional in it's own way.
That is completely where I'm coming from as well - scouting and the draft are king. Right on board with you.
DeleteJust a reminder they turned off the scouting spigot before, and its a myriad of interests that might not always care that much about the little baseball nuances that us hard core types want. They come correct with the home grown lockups and continue their efforts the way its been going since Timmy, I'm all good. I like to say I'm not turning in my lunatic fringe card, I might need it. For me, at this point, the fringe is way more about the ownership than Sabean.
I see nothing objective to make me thing ownership is a problem, now or in the future. Once again, when you combine the homegrown core, the baseball knowledge and skills of the front office and the financial resources of ownership, the Giants are as well positioned for the future as any team in baseball.
DeleteIt was good to see Timmy throw the slider and after the 1st inning he got the ball down in the zone much better. I think he is starting to realize he can't over-power hitters at 90MPH like he did at 94-96. Halladay still has pretty good movement on his pitches but he was only hitting 90 on the gun as well. These guys are both alot more hittable than they were when they could just blow people away.
ReplyDeleteAnother credible baseball guy questioning the handling of Belt.
ReplyDeletehttp://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7823321/the-red-sox-angels-giants-marlins-slow-starts-2012-mlb
As strong as the Giants look handling he contracts of Cain and Bumgarner, the handling of Belt just gets more silly by the day.
I am grateful we have Bruce Bochy as our manager. He does so many things well. But, when it comes to handling young position players he just doesn't get it. Sabean is going to have to trade Huff (good luck) to get Huff off the roster and remove the temptation to just write his name in the lineup out of habit.
With humans, it's rare that you see one person who is good at everything. Bochy is a winning manager. But it doesn't mean he's right about everything. He has had his successes with young position players. So, we will keep that in mind. We should limit our feelings, note 'feelings' instead of 'opinions,' to each specific instance.
DeleteFor instance, I thought at least one game against a righthander in hitting friendly Colorado might have boosted him psychologically. We will never know though whether this whould have been right or not.
I also thought there was another opportunity to get him going against Pittsburgh's right hander McDonald.
And I would have probably kept him away, at this moment anyway, from an eilte pitcher like Hallady but Belt didn't do too bad. So, what do I or any of us really know?
In fairness, there are conflicting imperatives here. Brandon Belt's long term development, presumably also for the long term benefit of the team vs putting the team on the field tonight that has the best chance of winning.
DeleteIf the Giants were in a rebuilding only mode, the choice would be easy. Play Belt come hell or high water. While the Giants are building a core of homegrown players, they are also committed to winning now. As field manager of a contending team whose goal is to win now, Bochy primary responsibility is to put the team on the field that has the best chance of winning each day. That may or may not include Brandon Belt.
Also, the whole notion that this "mishandling" of Belt is harming his chances of success in the future has been blown way out of proportion. What evidence do these people who are screaming about Belt's "mishandling" have that part time play at the MLB level vs full time play vs getting sent to the minors actually makes any difference in his chances for future success?
Thank you DrB! That's been the elephant that's never been pointed out, where's the evidence?
DeleteI think putting Belt in the lineup in Colorado would be the worse thing for a struggling hitter who apparently is fighting the team's instructors and not listening, which is the impression I've been getting. Letting him have success while doing the wrong mechanics to fix his hole would just make him more stubborn against fixing what ails him.
If Belt were at least putting up good peripherals like Crawford was, I would agree, but he's been easily struck out consistently by major leaguer pitching so far. Heck, even AAA and AAAA pitchers find it easy to strike him out, he even strikes out 30% of the time in the minors.
Now some hitters are able to survive in the majors striking out so much, but they tend to become a three true outcome type of hitter: HR, walks, strikeouts, but not much anything else. I don't want such a hitter out of Belt.
I want the guy who was dominating in A and AA, low K's, high BB's, high BA, high power, high HR. I would rather he just be sent to AAA and have him figure out AAA pitching once and for all, before he tries to figure out MLB pitchers. Whether it be mechanics or his mind interfering, let him work it out in AAA out of the glare of MLB lights, he clearly lets that affect him.
And there is nothing wrong, per se, with that, it is a very human behavior.
But if the Giants think they can draw that out of him while in the majors, fine, but if he continues to struggle, I hope they send him down in May to get regular playing time and send an instructor to stalk him and work on him constantly to fix that hole in his swing, as evidenced by the 5 strikeouts in 10 AB's, that's a pretty big hole, especially in a hitters park.
I'm not smart enough to say it is mishandling, but that's my preference given that he's never solved the AAA issue, let alone MLB issue, with striking out.
Good point about Belt never solving AAA. The top hitting prospects playing in MLB this year like Jesus Montero, Devin Meseraco, and Yonder Alonso have nothing to prove in AAA. It doesn't guarantee them success in MLB however..Mike Trout skipped AAA last year being called up by the Halos, but is starting in AAA this year.. I can't say Brandon Belt has nothing to prove in AAA logging in only 165 abs.. I think it might help his confidence and development if he's sent to AAA to play everyday and put up good offensive #'s. I would have been ok with Belt being a part time MLB player in 2012 if he played everyday in AAA in 2011.. I'm not smart in player development, so how is being a part time player for 2 seasons helpful to a players development? I've heard the saying that applies here: its tough to win and develop at the same time..
DeleteLG
There is more than one way to get to your destination. Whether any particular player turns out OK or not might not correspond to how he was treated. So we will never know.
ReplyDeleteWe also don't know if Bochy is doing it based on his own close obserations that Belt responds well to being challenged publicly or needs a little emotional push (playing angry or with a chip on this shoulder) to get to a higher level.
So, I think it's not to be labeled as mishandling per se. It's better to look at each instance on its own.
For me, I would have preferred that him go aginst Blanton tonight instead of against Hallady last night. But that just how I feel. At this distance, both those agreeing and those disagreeing with Bochy don't really know enough to say anything definite. I feel one should be able to say, as a fan, one prefers it a certain way without implying that is the correct or the only way.
As for going for the best chance of winning that day, that would generally be the idea, though in practice, it's about balancing conflicting issues in many cases, especially early in the season. If Posey needs to sit on a particular day for the reason we are all aware of, it may not necessarily give the team the best case THAT DAY. If your starting pitcher is having issues with his mechanics, you would still send him out that day most likely, instead of skippping him. Why? Well, it's not just about that day. I guess, practically, you have to balance the best chance for a win that day versus taking a longer view of the season.
As for playing in Colorado, in life, it's often that perception is as important as reality.
ReplyDeleteYou may want to go with another punt/kick off returner after a critical turnover, but most teams would say they want him back in public.
Now, the team was swept in Arizona, each loss by a run, and you benched one guy for 5 straight games? How would people perceive?